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Old 05-23-2018, 04:22 PM
xoneeleven xoneeleven is offline
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Unhappy 3D Model Finish pass starts ok but bit wanders to Z+

Hello All,

We have an ongoing issue with our Camaster Stinger III.
SPECS:
1.7KW Spindle
Software: Aspire v9.015

When we carve any 3d model that contains detail that heavily uses the Z-Axis,
the carving always starts out normal, but as the job progresses, the bit wanders +z. Eventually, the bit wanders +z so much that it is no longer cutting the material. We estimate that jobs run for about 15-30 minutes before we start noticing this effect.
We let one job run for 8 hours and saw that the bit had wandered +Z so much that the bit was actually 1" above the material.

We currently have a support ticket open with Camaster regarding this issue.
They believe it might be an electrical issue somewhere.

We have done everything from re-seat the WinCNC card, re-connecting motors, to adding triple-grounding to the machine itself. We also slowed down the Z-speed from 150imp to 60imp. We even reduced the Z acceleration from 400 to 200. However the results are all the same.

NOTE: If we "initialize" the machine, create a new toolpath only on the areas that did not get cut, and run the new job, the same results happen. The job starts normal, and cuts as it should. However, it eventually stops cutting due to the wandering z+.

Here is a YouTube video explaining the issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luJSUIATULc

Has anyone else experienced issues like this? If so, do you have any ideas on root cause, and resolution?

Thanks...
Mark
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Last edited by xoneeleven; 05-23-2018 at 04:46 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-23-2018, 04:46 PM
BradyWatson BradyWatson is offline
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There's a good chance the material is cupping and moving while it is being cut. Happens often with natural materials especially if the grain rings were not alternated from one board to the next in the glueup.

How is the material being held down? If you say vacuum, it is also possible in my experience that the bleeder board crushes under vacuum causing it to cup as well especially in ultralight density.

Neither have anything to do with the mechanicals of the cnc. The only way to verify either case is with a dial indicator.

Welcome to the world of large 3d carving....

-B
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:02 PM
xoneeleven xoneeleven is offline
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Hello Brady,
Thanks for the response...

We use hold-down clamps to hold the material down.

- We know the bed is flat, because we planed it with the CNC
- We know the material is flat, because we planed it with the CNC and use hold-down clamps to keep it in place.
- The issue occurs if we raster cut either on X or Y axis.
- Materials we have attempted on are Cherry, Fir, and Pine (the cheap woods are for prototyping)
- We have removed the dust collector.
- We have removed the Z-assist pneumatic system, and re-added it

All of these things have been tried and the results are the same.

Thanks...

Mark


Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyWatson View Post
There's a good chance the material is cupping and moving while it is being cut. Happens often with natural materials especially if the grain rings were not alternated from one board to the next in the glueup.

How is the material being held down? If you say vacuum, it is also possible in my experience that the bleeder board crushes under vacuum causing it to cup as well especially in ultralight density.

Neither have anything to do with the mechanicals of the cnc. The only way to verify either case is with a dial indicator.

Welcome to the world of large 3d carving....

-B
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:18 PM
BradyWatson BradyWatson is offline
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An indicator is cheap and good to have...in the meantime straight edge the top of your material and see if it is cupped. Check the table too. Times like these you can't take anything for granted.

Has this happened on other reliefs or just this one in different materials? What about in something homogeneous like MDF?
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:29 PM
xoneeleven xoneeleven is offline
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Hello Bradley,

We have verified nothing is cupped.
We have ran into the same issue a few different reliefs.
We have not tried MDF.

If we create new toolpaths using the same specs, but the new toolpaths are only inside the areas where the bit did not cut, and run the job, we get the same results. The cut starts out normal, and progresses into +z where the bit ends up above the material.

Given the circumstances and testing methods, we have ruled out anything having to do with bed alignment, material, and g-code issues.

We have ruled out most of the electrical possibilities (but not all).

I currently suspect it is either a motor issue, or WinCNC issue (hardware or software).

We do have Camaster helping us troubleshoot the issue. However, I thought opening a thread here would also assist in finding a root cause and solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyWatson View Post
An indicator is cheap and good to have...in the meantime straight edge the top of your material and see if it is cupped. Check the table too. Times like these you can't take anything for granted.

Has this happened on other reliefs or just this one in different materials? What about in something homogeneous like MDF?
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:34 PM
BradyWatson BradyWatson is offline
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Mark,
Good luck. Please post the solution when you find it.

-B
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  #7  
Old 06-28-2018, 12:57 PM
xoneeleven xoneeleven is offline
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Exclamation RESOLVED!!! See memo below...

This issue was resolved.
There is a single line in the wincnc.ini file.
We changed "holddir=0" to "holddir=1"

This setting apparently sends extra pulses to the motors when set to 0.

Is anyone else familiar with this WinCNC setting?
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Old 06-28-2018, 02:57 PM
BradyWatson BradyWatson is offline
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From the manual:
Quote:
holddir=#
# can be 0 or 1. The default mode is 0, where the direction signal changes immediately after a step pulse (1us-3us) to preset the direction signal for the upcoming step pulse.

The new mode is where the direction signal does not change for one additional
pulse delay and then an additional step pulse delay occurs be the upcoming step pulse is generated. An example of drivers that require this would be the Leadshine MX3660 and MX4660 and the Applied Motion Product 3540
What drives are you running?

-B
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  #9  
Old 06-28-2018, 07:28 PM
xoneeleven xoneeleven is offline
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We have Leadshine DM1182PbF drivers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyWatson View Post
From the manual:


What drives are you running?

-B
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