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  #21  
Old 03-23-2015, 04:46 PM
molechaser molechaser is offline
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Not saying that everyone's fingers are not important but that was my thought process on whether to spend the extra money. A bit more money for a tool that is going to last my lifetime did not seem like a big deal.

And I agree competition is good and nice to see someone else entering this market.
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  #22  
Old 03-23-2015, 05:33 PM
Art Mann Art Mann is offline
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The problem with Sawstop is that it isn't "a bit more money". It is actually more than twice the price of some other equally capable saws.
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  #23  
Old 03-23-2015, 05:46 PM
Xray Xray is offline
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Wasn't trying to mock you or anything John, just pointing out that even the most common sense safety precautions can and do go out the window for financial considerations.
Most folks would opt to save $500 rather than spend it on a precaution that no doubt they think they'll never need.
I doubt if a single person that has been maimed on a saw thought for 1 second that it would ever happen to them. I have made 1,000's of cuts maybe 10,000's without a drop of blood so my confidence level is pretty high. I am safe by nature and union taught and trained, yet I know in the back of my mind a serious accident could not be ruled out any time I power up.
Some like you are willing to pay the premium, most are not. Personally I've had my 10" dewalt contractor saw for about 4 years, when I got it I had never heard of sawstop, if I had probably would have still went with the dewalt.
Can't predict my future actions of course but I see a Bosch in my future especially if the price drops close to the $1k mark.

Here is a whole litany of bloody tablesaw accidents, seems the vast majority happen when concentration is distracted for a moment, or doing something seemingly routine but careless.

http://tablesawaccidents.com/recentl...-accidents.htm
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  #24  
Old 03-23-2015, 09:16 PM
Bruce Page Bruce Page is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmouse View Post
If Mr Gass truly was interested in safety for safeties sake then he would have made his technology available to any company that wants to use his technology for free.
That's like saying a doctor and a janitor should be paid equal amounts - a loaf of bread costs the same for everybody. It just doesn't work like that, thank God.
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  #25  
Old 03-23-2015, 09:53 PM
Bruce Page Bruce Page is offline
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I don't agree with his efforts to lobby the CPSC to make his technology mandatory but I do support his right to patent his technology and to sell his product. To expect him to just give away the technology is naive.
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  #26  
Old 03-23-2015, 11:04 PM
Art Mann Art Mann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmouse View Post
According to some of the posts he didn't want much compensation for his invention but then tries to make it illegal to sell a new saw without his technology.
There was a lively discussion with Shiraz Balolia (Grizzly CEO) on the Woodnet forum back in 2007. I believe Gass actually participated also. Someone might be able to look it up. I gave up on Woodnet years ago and never go there any more so I can't remember my password. I verified the year and the forum jut this morning from a thread about it on Sawmill Creek. In my recollection, Shiraz was calling out Gass for his misleading claim about what it would cost to license and adopt Sawstop technology. There is always more than one side to every story.
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  #27  
Old 03-24-2015, 08:55 AM
adirondak5 adirondak5 is offline
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More than one side to any story when big business is involved for sure , all the party's involved story's and outside of that the truth . At this point it does not matter , the device is to market , and works well , lobbying to make it law seems not to have worked , but maybe got some others attention ,now another company is coming out shortly with a system , for safety or for other reasons , who knows , surely other manufacturers will jump in sooner or later. Who is the winner in all this , consumers , businesses , hobbyists , tradesmen , I wish I could have afforded one when I bought my saw but at the time I couldn't , I still have all my fingers but if I didn't would I look back and say I should have found a way to come up with the xtra scratch ? Probably not , I am responsible for my own decisions , but the lawyers would be knocking on the door trying to do what they do .
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  #28  
Old 03-24-2015, 09:43 AM
Xray Xray is offline
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Has there been any successful lawsuits against table saw manufacturers ?
Seems to me that is like people suing McDonalds when they spill a cup of hot coffee on their crotch. Duh its hot ! Genitals are sensitive and don't take well to scalding fluids poured on them, be more careful next time !

Same principal with saws more or less.
Yes, they can be very dangerous if care is not taken, as can any sharp spinning metal object. No, they should not be operated by people not qualified to operate them. With those 2 simple principles in mind, a majority of gory incidents can be avoided.
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Last edited by Xray; 03-24-2015 at 09:47 AM.
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  #29  
Old 03-24-2015, 10:10 AM
adirondak5 adirondak5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xray View Post
Has there been any successful lawsuits against table saw manufacturers ?
Seems to me that is like people suing McDonalds when they spill a cup of hot coffee on their crotch. Duh its hot ! Genitals are sensitive and don't take well to scalding fluids poured on them, be more careful next time !

Same principal with saws more or less.
Yes, they can be very dangerous if care is not taken, as can any sharp spinning metal object. No, they should not be operated by people not qualified to operate them. With those 2 simple principles in mind, a majority of gory incidents can be avoided.
Not sure on any successful lawsuits Doug , but I have seen those late night Lawyer ads on the tube mentioning table saw accidents with saws without a flesh detection device , I seem to remember them even mentioning SawStop . Did a quick google , there is info available , yes it looks like there have been successful lawsuits .
I do agree , personal responsibility for safe practices should play a bigger part in any of these suits , but we all know the world we live in , its always somebody elses fault . As has been said , getting competition with a product like this is a good thing for all involved
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  #30  
Old 03-24-2015, 10:44 AM
Brendt Brendt is offline
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Like many have stated in this thread I too have made thousands of cuts on a table saw without cutting myself. I was a middle/high school tech ed teacher for 10 years and taught mainly woodworking and cabinetmaking during that time. When we remodeled the woodworking shop we replaced the three conventional table saws with saw stops. As others have said they excellent saws. I had one student that tested the saw and he barely nicked the skin. He would have been seriouly injured without the saw stop for sure.

The point that is getting missed with many of you responding to this thread with "I have made thousands of cuts with no injury" is that Those of us who have been using the table saw and other machines are in many ways more likely to be hurt then a person with less experience. I used to tell my students this and I firmly believe it. When you are comfortable with a piece of equipment you tend to let your gaurd down a bit. Maybe you decide to cut that piece of wood that's a little to small or get your fingers a little closer to the blade than you should. Many experienced operators don't use the gaurd on their table saw at all because it is perceived to be in the way.

It's the same thing with the CNC... I am sure we can all think of things that we may have done that probably would not be regarded as safe practice or later thought it was not the smartest thing to do but yet we did it because we were experienced woodworkers.

A machine that is designed to protect us from ourselves is probably a wise investment. Just because you haven't had an accident in the shop does not mean that it can't or won't happen to you in a moment of carelessness. The sawstop is in my opinion a very wise investment for both novice and experienced woodworkers.


I only had one gripe with the sawstops that we had at the school. Even with the key in the switch to turn off the saw safety you could not run a molding head which I used for a couple projects. The saw would not initialize because of the distance between the molding head and the brake could not be set appropriately. (About the thickness of a nickel ). I had called saw stop on this at the time and argued that when I put the key in the machine to bypass the safety that tI was accepting the risks at that point and therefore the saw should function as a normal saw. Unfortunately it did not. Just ended up making the cuts I needed at home on my conventional table saw in that case.
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